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Its possible, I hope at least, to have a discussion with point and counter point without the need to become enemies.

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How many times has someone silenced you with a simple offhanded reiteration of 'That wasn't very tolerant'?
Strange how tolerance sometimes becomes the byword of intolerance: namely censoring opposing positions without any due consideration.

Now not everyone uses 'tolerance' in this way. We all grew up learning tolerance was a good thing and that people should be accepted just the way they are. Its a good thing, definitionally, that you seek to act in a moral and friendly fashion and encourage that behavior in others by calling their attention to speaking out in anger or being unjust to others.

'Everyone is entitled to their opinions' is taken at face value as undeniable fact, yes? Of course. We're all well bred people who wouldn't dream of imposing ourselves on others.

Or would we?

This 'tolerance' and 'equality of opinion' stops dead in the mind of many for people who think certain ways considered beyond social acceptance. The prime example is always racism, which is considered an unforgivable sin even if its thought about.
The exact nature of racism is another subject, but its interesting to me that the same person who claims to allow total freedom of thought and believes all opinions are equal...will silence, denounce, and rebuke anyone whom they consider a racist without even considering the other's views.

This is why, if I can help it, I rarely ever even use the word 'opinion' because its so often a byword for an opposing position you want to belittle and ignore. Position is a better more solid word to me.
If someone thinks it through, they have a position NOT simply an opinion. For instance if you dislike the Iranian government because of well considered socio-political factors and moral beliefs, you don't simply have an 'opinion' about Iranian government.
If you like chocolate ice cream and say you dislike it but can't say or won't explore why THAT is an opinion.
There should be a difference made, otherwise you are damning a person's thoughts under the guise of tolerance.

Consider the 'racist' example. Is anger against racist language (to choose an example) an opinion? In a purely pragmatic perspective saying a racial slur does no physical personal or property damage and silencing a person based on speaking in a certain way could be extrapolated to any number of tyrannous options. Imagine if it was just as faux pas to say anything against the president no matter what he said.
By these arguments, being intolerant of racist language is censorship because of your own opinions. You don't like something for purely personal reasons so you try to make it stop.
But being against racism ISN'T usually considered an opinion, is it? Its almost considered a duty.
See why I'm angered by the hypocrisy of calling all opinions equal, while behind the scenes creating a list of whom to be intolerant to using the mask of accepting all opinions.

This is not an argument in favor of racism however, its an argument for racism to be heard IN THE CONTEXT of complete and utter tolerance. If you claim to be open to all beliefs that should mean ALL beliefs.

This distinction (like the difference between positions and opinions) should be made. You can argue in favor of painting the world teal without actually believing you should do it. You might even argue against doing it if you were in favor.

The final freedom however should be (if we're going by tolerance as a good thing) THE RIGHT TO SPEAK THE MIND.

But too often tolerance is specific, thereby in and of itself (ironically) intolerant.

If I type the word 'nigger' say, am I villainous and cruel and evil simply because I configured this word together on my computer? No. Am I a secret racist? Not to my knowledge. Do I mean harm, emotional or otherwise to people who might take offense at this word? Far from it.
But some argue I shouldn't be able to mention, write, or reference this word.
You can go on and on about connotations, but in the end at least textually the word 'nigger' is a word. It doesn't even have much context in this day and age because we no longer have plantations or anyone with living memory of being a slave. The word can be used as a weapon and emotionally harmfully, but should that make EVERY instant of it considered close to unspeakable profanity?
Its like Voldemort. Fear of the name makes fear of the thing itself.
We've all gotten over our fear of profanity (its crude but far less shocking then in the past) so what makes certain things break the mold for us to be allowed to be intolerant towards?

How many boogeymen do we have an not even know it?

Now politeness does dictate decorum. There are rules of social behavior for maximum comfort and amiability. Sometimes its a sacrifice and a just one not to speak your mind to avoid hurting the feelings of others.
But this doesn't mean every time you come into contention you should feel sinful for making a counterpoint.

I prefer things in moderation and consideration. I'll take tacks I don't believe in to see if they measure up to current criteria and likewise question my own beliefs if they are not in line with my understanding.
This doesn't make me special. Everyone has the capacity to think outside the box we've built for ourselves out of political correctness.

Tolerance should perhaps be...tolerant?

I don't feel this is beyond the realm of possibility.
Or do I have the right to think that?
  • Listening to: Deus Ex 3
  • Reading: The Godfather
  • Playing: Arkham City
  • Drinking: Tea
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:icon20028133:
20028133 Featured By Owner Feb 21, 2012
are you a fan of south park?
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:iconjarredspekter:
jarredspekter Featured By Owner Feb 21, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
I appreciate that it goes places other shows don't XD
Reply
:iconbaronessofblades:
baronessofblades Featured By Owner Feb 22, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Such as? I always assumed it was just mean spirited and gross humor-with sprinkles of sharp satire now and then ("Blame Canada" , "Fuck Facebook" being two of them)-and to this day, I still LOL at Cartman singing the chorus of "O Holy Night"in tenor when he got zapped by a cattle prod.XDDD
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:iconjarredspekter:
jarredspekter Featured By Owner Feb 22, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
The episode where it made fun of vegans, where it made fun of animal rights activists, the Occupy protests, atheists, where a principal flat out told people 'there's a difference between tolerating me and not standing up for what you believe', there was the episode where they tackled Al Gore and climate science, Avatar, and even Blame Canada was about political correctness when all was said and done XD

Its a little sad, but I can appreciate a show that takes no prisoners. Family Guy? Dead set liberal. Simpsons? Dead set liberal and it hates Christianity without reservation. In those shows you'll only see light jabs at anything considered progressive and even then its usually followed by an abject lesson about how important and good progressivism is over conservative ideals which are evil.

South Park destroys EVERYTHING. Any movie is fair game. They have made fun of evangelists, mormons, world of warcraft players...they have no fear.

Ironically they WERE going to do one on Muhammad (something unthinkable to any other program period) because they'd done one on Jesus vs Santa. But they received death threats (actually they arrested a guy who really wanted to kill them) and so they made their shortest episode ever in response.
Its a scene of George Bush and Jesus defecating on the American Flag while they sing a song composed of swear words.

And the networks ran it.

So the final joke in all this mean-spirtedness and grossness? The networks themselves that will show ANYTHING as long as it tackles the right sorts of targets.

South Park is the only comedy show I think which is genuinely a source of political activism anymore XD
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:iconbaronessofblades:
baronessofblades Featured By Owner Feb 22, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Hope you don't mind me posting your journal entries on FB to share.I'm not into politics whatsoever but hope to be as erudite and eloquent as you:)

Blame Canada, ironically sung by the parents, just confirms the fact that they rather blame anything else but themselves for what their children become or fail to become:P
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:iconjarredspekter:
jarredspekter Featured By Owner Feb 22, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
^_^ I'm flattered. I hope it doesn't rankle too many though ^^;

:lol: Yes. The point of the movie really was to show language itself doesn't hurt people by and large. Ironically its trying to censor people that leads to the most violence and hardship.
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:iconnimibro:
nimibro Featured By Owner Feb 21, 2012
I feel you man. This kind of defeating the point is also present with Political correctness. When you act extremely politically correct, it can make the person your'e trying not to offend, well, be offended. It's like making a motivational/support/etc. group for a specific group, which seems at first that it's all about empowerment... but just kinda says they lack the thing that this group is trying to show they apparently have. I think i got completely offtrack, but I think there's a point in there somewhere.
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:icongothiccheshire:
GothicCheshire Featured By Owner Feb 21, 2012
...I love reading your journals... They're usually thought provoking little slices of awesome. However, in this case, I'm going to have to nitpick... Voldemort, not Valdemort, Voldemort. You're going to get a crazy Harry Potter fan in here somewhere and they're going to go nuts. *cough. Anyway, very nice. Love the thought-process behind it. I'll have to poke this at people. It'll be interesting.

Insanity Signing OFF!!!
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:iconjarredspekter:
jarredspekter Featured By Owner Feb 21, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
:lol: I supposed I'd misspelled that XD
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:icongothiccheshire:
GothicCheshire Featured By Owner Feb 21, 2012
Haha, yeaaaah... Least you were mostly right...

Fantasia is awesome. That is all.

Insanity Signing OFF!!!
Reply
:iconjbvonherb:
JBvonHerb Featured By Owner Feb 21, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Your argument kind of reminds me of John Stuart Mill's argument. Instead of being finicky and tolerating only certain views we should be open to all views and ideas. By conforming to an idea, in this case it is Political Correctness (:puke:), you and Mill agree that it prevents people from thinking outside the box. Plus I interpret things like Political Correctness as saying we have to accept any view if it agrees with them. This leads to losses of tolerance and what could be great debates because they drive people away with either "Intolerant", "Bigot", "Racist", "Uncle Tom" (the irony there) or any other insulting term that they can think of. Sort of like "All views are equal, but some views are more equal than others" (*bricked* :P)

But I think it boils down to this: we can tolerate others points of views, but we don't have to accept them. So if you don't like someone's point of view you can either try changing their mind or just ignore them. I usually choose the second choice unless I'm certain I can win a debate with whoever it is I'm disagreeing with
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:iconscalpinock:
scalpinock Featured By Owner Feb 20, 2012
"A word without a context is just a bunch of letters put together." -Just said this , computed the sentence in about 0.56 seconds.
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:iconjarredspekter:
jarredspekter Featured By Owner Feb 20, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
^^; Sorry? I don't understand.
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:iconscalpinock:
scalpinock Featured By Owner Feb 21, 2012
As usual , I don't even understand what I said 3 hours ago. I need to buy a better brain.
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:iconjarredspekter:
jarredspekter Featured By Owner Feb 21, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Nah. Stream of thought is fun :)
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:iconthewarlord1000:
Thewarlord1000 Featured By Owner Feb 20, 2012
Dude you need to chill.

I just dont think MLP is a good show and never will.

I didnt want you to get all racial about it.
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:iconjarredspekter:
jarredspekter Featured By Owner Feb 20, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
What?

...

Sam, the entire point of this rant was TO PREVENT RACISM AND OTHER FACTORS FROM BECOMING NUCLEAR OPTIONS IN ARGUMENTS! :lol:

I guess I failed :/
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:iconthewarlord1000:
Thewarlord1000 Featured By Owner Feb 20, 2012
LOL
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:iconjarredspekter:
jarredspekter Featured By Owner Feb 20, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
>/
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:iconthewarlord1000:
Thewarlord1000 Featured By Owner Feb 20, 2012
My comment was out of line. I apologize.
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:iconjarredspekter:
jarredspekter Featured By Owner Feb 20, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Its okay, I'm angry at myself for not being clear ^^;
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:iconthewarlord1000:
Thewarlord1000 Featured By Owner Feb 20, 2012
Well when you used my quote I guess I just jumped.
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:iconshadowelecman:
Shadowelecman Featured By Owner Feb 20, 2012
:iconyodawg-plz:
Trolling aside, some opinions/positions are not taken because they are simply unacceptable in our society. For example, let's say my position was that all Americans are asses and deserve to burn, so I become a pyromaniac. Should my opinion be respected and tolerated? Or should I be locked up and rehabilitated? I can't speak for anyone else, but I'd prefer the rehabilitation route. For the racism aspect, it is true that people probably freak out over these terms more than they should. That doesn't mean the words aren't hurtful or looked down upon for a reason. For example, a white man calls a black man a "nigger" in an explicitly degrading manner. Should we respect the white man's opinion, force him to change his ways, or somewhere in between? What about the black man? How does he feel in that situation? Is he threatened by this white man using a term that is meant to make him feel inferior? I don't know. But my point is that sometimes things are done for a reason, not just because some grandmas got their panties in a knot.
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:iconjarredspekter:
jarredspekter Featured By Owner Feb 20, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
You've brought up a good point. Call me anti-tolerance but I do NOT fully support the right of the crazy clown masked psycho with the chainsaw to 'express' himself :iconneedleskaneplz:

I think that in a situation like the one you presented, provided the black and/or white men are not either...
-Passing each other on the street and can safely ignore each other
-Are carrying a deadly weapon and intend to use it
...the two parties should TALK about it.
Whenever I get accused of being 'gay' for like MLP G4 for instance I ask quite clearly 'Are you accusing me of being homosexual? If so, why, and why do you consider that a derogatory term?'

Likewise, imagine.
'Sir...why are you calling me a 'nigger'? True my skin is darker then yours and the term is Spanish for 'black' but the way you used the word implies you're angry at me for simply having different colored skin. Can you perhaps tell me why this is? Does my having different colored skin imply something about my intelligence, my physiology? Did I personally do something to you to rouse your anger? Do you have any kind of scientific or even practical basis for attempting to make a personal attack out of simply describing my appearance?'

If the guy responds with another racial slur, he's not interested in arguing the point and merely has an opinion which can be safely ignored by walking away.
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:iconshadowelecman:
Shadowelecman Featured By Owner Feb 20, 2012
I see your point. Unfortunately, some people are simply not willing to talk about why someone has used a racist slur and get angry and irrational instead. Or worse, the white man continues verbally abusing the black man, despite the black man's peaceful attempts to get away. With topics like race and 'intolerance', there is, regrettably, no real way to win.
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:iconjarredspekter:
jarredspekter Featured By Owner Feb 20, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
What if the black man did the same to the white man?
Some people wouldn't see a problem with that.

There is a way to win CONFRONT THE ISSUE.

DON'T ban Huckleberry Finn or rewrite it, DON'T censor song lyrics, DON'T make all TV shows so self conscious nothing can be said or done.

If you think you've lost...you have.
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:iconthewarlord1000:
Thewarlord1000 Featured By Owner Feb 20, 2012
Then you should read Lion's Blood

Its alternate history where the Europeans are slaves and the Africans are the masters.
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:iconjarredspekter:
jarredspekter Featured By Owner Feb 20, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
I saw that...somewhere XD
I think someone asked me to make a movie trailer for it.
Or did you tell me about it?
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:iconthewarlord1000:
Thewarlord1000 Featured By Owner Feb 20, 2012
You might want to try it. I think you would help interest in the book, there is also the sequels Zulu Heart and Bronze Nile, the books show history and everything about it. Such as Alexander lost a leg, became Pharoh of Egypt and Egypt helped Carthage destroy Rome.
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:iconshadowelecman:
Shadowelecman Featured By Owner Feb 20, 2012
Alright, you have a point with the censorship. But the thing is, for every man who actually promotes tolerance, there's another that only wants tolerance for one group, forgetting the others, and another man who claims to be tolerant but silences everyone who disagrees with him. I'm not arguing for censorship of depictions of racism. I'm saying that there is no clear way to please everyone when it comes up, which is why people usually skirt around the issue.
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:iconjarredspekter:
jarredspekter Featured By Owner Feb 20, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Then why please everybody?

Everyone believes someone is wrong. Why shouldn't it be so?
Even people who believe everyone is right to my understanding will draw the line in extreme cases. Its more bizarre to believe everything is equal then inequal, and to me more natural to believe things DO have objective values and objective morality associated.

Maybe instead of trying to please everybody all the time we should actually have out our differences a little so we can understand each other.
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:iconshadowelecman:
Shadowelecman Featured By Owner Feb 20, 2012
Amen to that. Now, the problem is convincing everyone else.
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:iconjarredspekter:
jarredspekter Featured By Owner Feb 20, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
The best way to convince someone is discuss with them :)
And heck, they have a better way? Lets discuss that too XD
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(2 Replies)
:iconcarsis:
Carsis Featured By Owner Feb 20, 2012  Professional Interface Designer
I am reminded of only one thing after reading this . . . .

~clears throat~
:sing:

Your a little bit racist, well your a little bit too! I guess where both a little bit racist! Admitting it not an easy thing to do. But I guess its true, between me and you I guess everybody's a little bit racist, sometiiiiiiiimes. Doesn't mean we go around committing Hate CriiiiIIIiiiimes. Look around and you will find, no ones really color blind. Maybe its a fact we all should faaace, everyone makes judgements based on race! :D
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:icon20028133:
20028133 Featured By Owner Feb 21, 2012
wasnt their a song about this
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:iconcarsis:
Carsis Featured By Owner Feb 21, 2012  Professional Interface Designer
yes, yes there was :D
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:iconflaminglight:
FlamingLight Featured By Owner Feb 20, 2012
:iconclapplz:
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:iconjarredspekter:
jarredspekter Featured By Owner Feb 21, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
:thanks: I'm glad the considerations were to your interest :)
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:iconflaminglight:
FlamingLight Featured By Owner Feb 21, 2012
Yeah, it's just, I totally agree with ya. :3
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